why atheists are so angry: a debate
Sunday, November 26, 2006
I seem to be having more frequent conversations of late about religion, sometimes in debate with a co-worker, sometimes with Superwife deciding the best course of action to explain what we believe to our daughter as she grows up.
But none of my debates get quite as eloquent as this one I came across tonight. In fact, most times they end up with me telling the faithful that there is a straight-line relationship between high intelligence and atheism. (And by contrast a similar relationship between low IQs and religious faith.)
Here's a snippet from Sam Harris' opening volley, the link to the full article follows:
And just for fun, here's Harris' response to the oft-heard argument that atheism is as equally unprovable as theism, courtesy of Bertrand Russell:
Check out the full article here.
But none of my debates get quite as eloquent as this one I came across tonight. In fact, most times they end up with me telling the faithful that there is a straight-line relationship between high intelligence and atheism. (And by contrast a similar relationship between low IQs and religious faith.)
Here's a snippet from Sam Harris' opening volley, the link to the full article follows:
As an atheist, I am angry that we live in a society in which the plain truth cannot be spoken without offending 90% of the population. The plain truth is this: There is no good reason to believe in a personal God; there is no good reason to believe that the Bible, the Koran, or any other book was dictated by an omniscient being; we do not, in any important sense, get our morality from religion; the Bible and the Koran are not, even remotely, the best sources of guidance we have for living in the 21st century; and the belief in God and in the divine provenance of scripture is getting a lot of people killed unnecessarily.Couldn't have said it better myself.
And just for fun, here's Harris' response to the oft-heard argument that atheism is as equally unprovable as theism, courtesy of Bertrand Russell:
Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.When I make that argument I also like to quote the 'untestable' claim of Carl Sagan's garage dwelling invisible fire breathing dragon. But that's just me.
Check out the full article here.
Labels: atheism
posted by raistlinsghost at 11/26/2006 01:15:00 AM
7 Comments:
RE: god belief
God Belief - The Meme Thought Virus
http://beepbeepitsme.blogspot.com/2006/11/god-belief-meme-thought-virus_26.html
I am constantly dragged into religious debates at work by my patients and I always enjoy new points to make. I love Sagan's dragon quote but my favorite would have to be Douglas Adams': "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
I love that line. So true. And speaking of God and The Hitchhiker's Guide, my favourite part of that book is this bit about the Babel Fish being used as a universal translator definitively proving the non-existence of God:
"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn’t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don’t. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn’t thought of that," and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.
Did it ever occur to you that organized religion is used as the means to and end? In other words, it's not religions themselves that cause wars but those who interpret the relgions as they wish, like yourself, who cause wars using personal interpretations. You may not realize it but your attempt to be an atheist is as much a religion as any other religion. You want the war of disbelief, which makes you no different than those who want to promote war centered around different religious icons. Try to avoid this obvious route of thought if you want your thoughts to be taken seriously.
Ah, where to start?
First, you don't make an attempt to be an atheist: You either believe in some version of the omnipotent creator myth or you do not.
Second, people like me do not start religious wars with our religious interpretations. Your argument here smacks of not thinking this one through. Atheists by definition make no religious interpretations whatsoever. Rather we would like to see religion put in its proper place in human life, alongside ideas like the easter bunny, santa claus and the tooth fairy.
Third, and most personally, nice touch leaving your name as annonymous. No point in leaving any semblance of online identity to hint at a sense of validity. That way myself and other readers can just lump you in with all the other nutball fundies and not have to worry about taking YOU seriously.
"Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby." -Anonymous
I'm sure it's not the same Anonymous who was so kind as to grace us with his presence and his ignorance but it is nonetheless an applicable quote.
Love that quote jk. It just became my new signature file. Let me know if you find out who to attribute that to.
I'm pretty sure you're right in that it is not from the same anonymous that 'posted and ran' here the other day.
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